THE CHURCH. If I were to gather my Christian friends in a room and open a discussion about the church, it would probably release a set of fireworks that would make the Y2K New York harbor fireworks look like a sparkler in the hands of a 3-year old. The opinions (all based in Scripture) would be diverse to say the least.
What I would like to do is hear from you. How would you define "church"? I read a quote basically saying that we have replaced the "Kingdom of God" with "church" therefore losing the meaning of both. What do you think about that? Let's see some fireworks! (If this stirs up anger in you please count to ten before responding)
6 comments:
Well, I believe the CHURCH is the body of Christ. So, I think whatever form of gathering it takes on, is Church. It can be in a building on Sunday mornings, it could be in someone's house on Wednesday nights, it could be housechurch, cell church, etc. Paul talks a lot in his letters about standing firm in one faith. Philippians 2:2-4, “then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in Spirit and purpose. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but to the interests of others.” As long as the center of our gatherings is Jesus Christ, there can be many facets of worship and fellowship.
Scripture, if I’m reading it correctly, doesn't give a specific model for church, however it sets up some guidelines. Are we loving each other, are we dealing with sin, are we preaching Christ and the cross, are we encouraging each other and building each other up, are we praying for each other, are we holding each other accountable, are we serving each other and helping each other, are we reaching out to the lost? These things can take on so many forms. Yes, we have to make sure we are being taught sound doctrine.
Sometimes I think we find ourselves spending too much time debating over who's church is better. If there are doctrinal issues on the basis of the "majors" like salvation, the virgin birth, etc, then there is reason to speak up. But if you're talking about housechurch vs. the building down the street and hymns vs. contemporary and verse by verse teaching vs. topical teaching, then why do we argue to the point that it sometimes divides us or makes us angry? No matter what “fellowship” we say we are a part of, as a whole, we are still the church.
I think the big question to ask is, "Is Jesus the head of your church?" If He's not and it's become founded on one person or a group of people, not seeking the Spirit in all things, then I could see some issues.
I believe the Lord gave us some freedoms in how we do church and we are called to a certain place for a certain reason and sometimes only for a season. Paul tells us over and over again that no matter what we do, that we do it in love. In Galatians 5:22,26, the fruits of the spirit, “love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control… Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.”. As CHURCH, we are to love each other. If we can’t love each other, then how can we love our enemies?
In simple terms the Kingdom of God represents God’s realm of rule and it should be remembered that actions may happen that are not permissible in the realm of rule, but nonetheless happen despite the consequences.
A simple analogy is of a child who claims the bedroom where the child sleeps as ‘theirs’ and engages in the activity of eating a candy bar stolen from the local store. The child has done that which is not permissible, stolen the candy bar, enjoyed the fruits of his labor, and ate the candy bar in the child’s in the room claimed as it’s own. The ‘getting away with it’ remains to be seen. And so it is in the Kingdom of God.
People are claiming things as their own even when it is not. People are doing things they ought not to do. People are enjoying the fruits of their labor. The consequences are not necessarily made manifest immediately or obvious, though sometimes they are.
Of this Kingdom of God, it was Jesus who claimed it had drawn near and preached the message of this Kingdom. Repent for the Kingdom of God is near. Turn from wicked and evil ways, be born again, saved not by flesh and blood but by the spirit (a simple boiled down version of the message). It is a message to be taken on faith. It was a message spoken in authority. Remember Jesus had been given all authority from His Father. This is similar to a scientist who explains how carbonation in beverages works. The process of carbonation (the message) is conveyed in such a way as to be understood and supported on facts, facts of things (atoms) that we can not directly observe, but we take the message on the authority of the scientific community. And of course you don’t have to understand it, nor do you have to believe it. The same goes with the message of the Kingdom of God.
Now the word ‘church’ has a simple and basic meaning of: 1) gathering together or assembly and 2) the body of Jesus. In a more concise, yet simple form, it would mean a gathering in and under the authority of Jesus. It would seem then that the ‘church’, composed of individuals, have received a message from the Kingdom of God and have acted in a matter compliant to it. Or as the case may be; some gatherings are claiming they are acting in a matter of compliance with the Kingdom of God, but are not. It is the ‘matters of the heart’ that defile and it is God who examines and weighs the heart and Jesus Himself will be the Judge and consequences worked out.
The Kingdom of God having it’s realm of rule sends out a message. The message, bearing the authority of the Kingdom of God, gathers some people in. People come in through trusting the message and living in the realm of God’s rule with obedience, instead of rebellion. The people are gathered here and there in the whole of the realm under the authority given in Jesus. If the ‘gathering’ has thought that it has replaced the Kingdom of God is has bitten the hand that feeds it. And if the ‘gathering’ ‘forgets’ it’s place in the Kingdom of God then it is in jeopardy as was Lucifer when his pride set in.
KH – Seeing that books have been written on this I won’t try and sum it all up. However, one passage that I’ve always like and been challenged by is 1 Timothy 3:14-15 (16 is pretty cool too) “These things I write to you, though I hope to come to you shortly; but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.”
Points to ponder:
• he talks about the house of God and obviously he does not have a building in mind.
• interestingly there are certain expectations on we should live, “conduct” ourselves.
• This house IS the “church of the living God.” God is living and not dead, the Church should be likewise (see vs 16)
Lastly and most cool of all is his statement that this house, this church is “the pillar and ground (foundation) of truth.” WOW!!
A pillar holds things up and a pillar stands on the ground. So the church is what holds up the truth as a pillar and also what the pillar is sported by. Rather all encompassing I’d say. So truth depends on the Church. The Church speaks truth. The Church is truth. Jesus was the way the TRUTH and the life. See John for this and the following:
• Grace and truth came through Jesus
• The truth will make you free
• Jesus’ word is truth
• The Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth
• We are indwelt by the Holy Spirit
• Jesus lives in us
So, what is the church? Truth better be part of your definition. So had Jesus. And me. And you too, KH.
- Rudy -
Well Ring Bearer, I don't really know what that all means. I got lost somewhere. But then I guess my posted comment(s) could also be a meandering walk through the obtuse forest. At least you submitted a comment in the public forum and you obviously spent some time working on it. You should be congratulated and I’m sure you also learned in the process.
I am reminded of the basic concept of church in that the Greek word is “ecclesia” or however you want to transliterate it. The root idea is to call out or to be called out or from. The obvious idea being conveyed is that Jesus called His people out of the World to Himself. We are now His called out ones, His people, His “Church.” We are also instructed to not allow the world to press us back into its mold but are to be clearly different than the world. We are His called out ones. And that becomes a challenge in many instances to define, but I won’t go there now.
We are now part of His Kingdom. The intersection of the K of G and the Church is hard to define since it appears that though the K of G is here it is not yet fully realized. One enigmatic and yet insightful passage is:
Matthew 6:9-13 "In this manner, therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors. And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.”
Jesus instructed his followers to pray that the Father’s kingdom would come to reality in/on earth, and that his will be done on earth... AS IT IS IN HEAVEN. The point seems to be that in heaven both are fully realized, but not yet on earth. His followers seem to play an integral part of bringing both the K of G and God’s will into reality on earth.
So we don’t have to worry too much about defining what the Church is or the K of God, but we can pray for it and God’s will to become reality on earth. And we can obey God so as to also allow it to happen.
And finally, “Do not let the world squeeze you into its mold. But be transformed by the renewing of your mind…” Romans 12:2
- Rudy -
KH. Now that I’ve posted two comments I reread your original post. I have two more thoughts.
First of all I’m not sure what fireworks might come from discussing these two terms, except my seeming criticism of Ring Bearer’s obtuse comments, though just an observation not a criticism. My apologies if offense was given or perceived.
Secondly, I’m not sure that the fear that we are replacing the "Kingdom of God" with "church" therefore “losing the meaning of both” is in fact true. Actually maybe the fact of the matter is that some are replacing the term “Kingdom of God” with “Church,” but I’m not completely convinced that we therefore in danger of losing both. Aside from the fact that on one level they are different, otherwise they would be same word. Duh! But note the following:
Matthew 16:18-19 Now I say to you that you are Peter (which means 'rock'), and upon this rock I will build my church, and all the powers of hell will not conquer it. And I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. Whatever you forbid on earth will be forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permit on earth will be permitted in heaven."
So with the first NT use of the word “church,” at the foundation of the Church, Jesus ties in the authority granted to Peter. This authority for the Church is the “keys of the kingdom of heaven.” There certainly is a divine intersection of the OT concept of the promised Kingdom with the advent of the Messiah and his newly called out people.
Is it possible that today you cannot have one without the other? The Church is where the K of G will be realized. Note Paul’s final words to the leaders of Ephesus in Acts:
Acts 20:25-28 "And indeed, now I know that you all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, will see my face no more. "Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. "For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. "Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
In Paul’s tribute to Jesus in Colossians 1 he also sees the church and the kingdom as inextricably linked. He states, “He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, … And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.” (read the entire context)
So at the founding of the Church, at the end of Paul’s ministry to the Ephesians and in His summing up of who Jesus is, we see the Church and K of G as being closely linked. It seems that the K of G is somehow fulfilled or embodied in the Church. And the Church gets much of its rich tradition from the promises of the K. And it is all tied together in the riches of who Jesus is.
“For this reason I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved and faithful son in the Lord, who will remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach everywhere in every church… For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power.
1 Corinthians 4:17-20
- Rudy -
I like the comment "The church is where the Kingdom of God will be realized."
I'd like to hear more talk of the Kingdom among Christians. For me it just puts everything in
perspective. The cares of the world would take a back seat to God's Kingdom. Our churches would come alive by Kingdom living (check out Matthew chapters 5,6, and 7) over just trying to get people in the doors. Our lives would be a witness, disciples would be made.
I'm rambling but I think you get the picture.
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